Mark Boulton

28 Responses to “CSS Eleven”

1. 
   Kari Pätilä said on: October 8th, 2007 at 5:59 am

   Finally. The most inter­est­ing thing about this is that I now have eleven sources report­ing on the pro­ject, which should pretty much guar­an­tee some insight into how things are going. An art­icle about deal­ing with the W3C should be an inter­est­ing read, also. 

   Hope­fully things will get done right this time. Best of luck to you.

2. 
   Olav said on: October 8th, 2007 at 6:13 am

   Very cool, and yes, lay­out models! 

   I always find it inter­est­ing how even simple CSS lay­outs seem com­plex and hard to begin­ners, which I think is why many resort to old, pre­dict­able tables. :) 

   Good luck!

3. 
   Wolf said on: October 8th, 2007 at 6:19 am

   Jona­thon Snook. Interesting.

4. 
   Geof Harries said on: October 8th, 2007 at 6:41 am

   Who­ever is set­ting the web­site up should really get on with the Expres­sion­En­gine install­a­tion. The install.php file is wide open at present!

5. 
   Arne said on: October 8th, 2007 at 6:53 am

   Just wanted to point out the same, I get the EE install­a­tion wiz­ard, quite creepy. =) Besides that, I think it’s really great to have such a resource. 

   Cheers,
   
   Arne

6. 
   Christian said on: October 8th, 2007 at 7:09 am

   Yep, same here.  sends me to the Expres­sion­En­gine install­a­tion page.  more spe­cific­ally to: 

   http://www.csseleven.com/install.php

7. 
   Geoffrey Sneddon said on: October 8th, 2007 at 8:57 am

   Just one bit of advise — don’t let the WG try and over-complicate and over-engineer what you need. That’s what causes spe­cific­a­tions to take even longer than they need take, and never get imple­men­ted by browsers.

8. 
   Kari Pätilä said on: October 8th, 2007 at 11:43 am

   Come on… the site is up, but the install scriptis still wide open.

9. 
   Andy Clarke said on: October 8th, 2007 at 1:05 pm

   OK so my les­son for today is… don’t start installing Expres­sion Engine then go to a cli­ent meet­ing half way through. You can see why I’m not tech­nical ;) All is now work­ing as it should.

10. 
    dryan said on: October 8th, 2007 at 5:27 pm

    What a stel­lar group.  I hope that your col­lect­ive input is put to action.

11. 
    Barney Carroll said on: October 9th, 2007 at 6:06 am

    Looks cool, Mark… 

    What exactly will you be doing, and what are we the pub­lic going to see (am I right in think­ing that the cur­rent site is just the one page)?

12. 
    Frank said on: October 9th, 2007 at 7:20 am

    Is it cyn­ical of me to think that this is just another vehicle for a goup of con­nec­ted friends to gen­er­ate more business/book/speaking oppor­tun­it­ies for themselves? 

    I guess we’ll be able to judge that on the effect it has on the W3C.

13. 
    Geoffrey Sneddon said on: October 9th, 2007 at 8:57 am

    Frank, sadly, because the CSS WG oper­ate privately, we can’t see what affect it actu­ally has: we can only guess based upon the end products.

14. 
    Mark Boulton said on: October 9th, 2007 at 8:58 am

    Frank: Ouch. Yeah, that is cyn­ical, and to be hon­est, you’re not the first per­son to say that. 

    If I may speak for Andy Clarke for just one minute. Andy, who is already a mem­ber of the CSS Work­ing Group, has iden­ti­fied a need for visual design­ers to be involved in the cre­ation of CSS specs to ensure they include the tools and ter­min­o­logy design­ers are used to.

    He asked a bunch of people who he felt had the chops to help the W3C deliver a CSS spec that reflec­ted the require­ments of design­ers. Now, aside from tak­ing an open-source approach to this (which we all know wouldn’t work — too many cooks), how would you have done it any differently?

15. 
    Geoffrey Sneddon said on: October 9th, 2007 at 9:04 am

    I think even just mak­ing the mail­ing list archives pub­licly access­ible would help, though doing such a thing would most likely turn www-style into a con­tinu­ation of what would likely be called public-style.

16. 
    Barney Carroll said on: October 9th, 2007 at 10:01 am

    Hav­ing elab­or­ated a bit in your last post I’m quite a fan of the notion. 

    Every­body and their dog has to have an opin­ion about the css3 group list, but focus groups within are very import­ant. As it stands it’s far too often simply a case of highly tech­nical spec sug­ges­tions attached to the most banal use cases. Visual design­ers work­ing together within the con­text has to be a plus.

17. 
    Andy Clarke said on: October 9th, 2007 at 6:55 pm

    @ Anonym­ous Frank: 

    “Is it cyn­ical of me to think that this is just another vehicle for a goup of con­nec­ted friends to gen­er­ate more business/book/speaking oppor­tun­it­ies for themselves?” 

    I think that Mark summed up my thoughts perfectly. 

    Now; if it’s fool­ish to think that ‘a goup of con­nec­ted friends’ can com­mu­nic­ate bet­ter than a dis­con­nec­ted industry, often at odds with the W3C — then I’m a fool. 

    If it’s simple minded to think that ‘a goup of con­nec­ted friends’ who are also some of the best visual design­ers, coders, writers and speak­ers can use their exper­i­ence to help the W3C get what we need from CSS3 — then I’m a simple minded fool. 

    Now, have you some­thing con­struct­ive to add or are you just an anonym­ous twerp? 

    No? I thought not.

18. 
    Andy Clarke said on: October 9th, 2007 at 7:04 pm

    Oh, and in case any­one thought that I inten­ded my last com­ment to come across as a cri­ti­cism of people who are all to eager to make dis­respect­ful com­ments without the balls to leave a pub­lic­ally iden­ti­fi­able URL (blogging’s equivelant of a drive-by shoot­ing); it was.

19. 
    Barney Carroll said on: October 10th, 2007 at 2:16 am

    Hahaha.

    Yeah, but we know where you live Andy! I still think it might be worth put­ting up a little descrip­tion of the pur­pose of the group on the site. Frank jumped the gun a bit but it did take the dis­course in the com­ments on a blog post about the actual site for us to get some­thing like a clear idea as to what the pur­pose of CSS Eleven is. 

    As it stands, the site seems to indic­ate the top stars of web design are get­ting together to make a film or rob a casino. :)

20. 
    Zak said on: October 10th, 2007 at 9:42 am

    This sounds very prom­ising ! I read most of the 11’s blogs etc so know that if they can be involved and listened to, that I will have a bet­ter time in the future as a web based worker. I mis­placed my car ste­reo yes­ter­day and its called Frank, i hope he didnt get on my laptop again.

21. 
    Tomasz Gorski said on: October 10th, 2007 at 6:21 pm

    I still think it might be worth put­ting up a little descrip­tion of the pur­pose of the group on the site. I agree with Barney it can help pro­mote it I like the cur­rent descrip­tion of 11 and I know them from they blogs that I read and some­times com­ment. Congratulations!

22. 
    John said on: October 11th, 2007 at 3:18 am

    Come on guys lighten up a bit… These 11 Design­ers are without a doubt pion­eers in CSS and stand­ards based web design. Their know­ledge and expert­ise has been both invalu­able and inspir­a­tional right across the industry. The film ref­er­ence is, I ima­gine, them hav­ing a light­hearted laugh… noth­ing wrong with that! 

    And any­way, what’s wrong with a bit of self-promotion… it’s actu­ally a big part of a Designer’s activ­ity. Their ulti­mate aim and object­ive will have a pos­it­ive impact on the future of web design and stand­ards and we should embrace, encour­age and be grate­ful for their con­tinu­ous endeavours.

23. 
    Maxime said on: October 15th, 2007 at 6:02 am

    It looks like it’s a per­fect team. Wait­ing for your standards!

24. 
    Nathan de Vries said on: October 15th, 2007 at 7:15 am

    I feel that one of the biggest prob­lems we’ve got in terms of third party deal­ings with the W3C is the prob­lem of rep­res­ent­a­tion; who rep­res­ents who? 

    The “CSS Eleven” appears to be going about things the right way. That is, they’ve found 11 like-minded people who would like their needs and sug­ges­tions con­veyed to the W3C for inclu­sion in the future CSS drafts. They’re will­ing to work together to try and help the W3C deliver some­thing which caters (at least in some part) to their needs. 

    They don’t rep­res­ent the industry as a whole; they rep­res­ent them­selves. It’s a shift away from the usual “we rep­res­ent every­one” approach. 

    At least, that’s the bound­ar­ies that I *hope* the CSS Eleven oper­ates within.

25. 
    Sherwin Techico said on: October 16th, 2007 at 2:59 pm

    Sweet! Can’t wait to hear more… Congrats!

26. 
    Andrey M said on: October 17th, 2007 at 1:34 am

    What can hap­pen in the next few month?

27. 
    Cox said on: October 25th, 2007 at 12:16 am

    How are these people are? I don’t know anybody

28. 
    Prestito said on: October 25th, 2007 at 4:39 am

    What will be the next tech­no­logy in web design, after CSS?