March 3rd, 2005
Design tip: Just say YES to Lorem Ipsum
Prompted by a post at 37signals regarding the “unfortunate” usage of Lorem Ipsum in design comps. Interesting post, put I feel I have to put forward the other side of the arguement.
The basis of the 37signals post is, I think, they regard Lorem Ipsum text as abstracting the content from the interface. By using dummmy copy, you’re presenting a dummy interface. To a point I agree, but, lets face it, it’s a bit idealistic thinking that way.
How many times has a client asked you for visuals before they’ve commited to giving you copy? And what about pitching for work? Do you commit extra resources to write real copy? For a pitch??
There is a time and a place for Lorem Ipsum. I’d agree with 37signals and not use it at a wireframe stage, or final visual stage, for website presentation. But for print, Lorem Ipsum has it’s place and will continue to be used for years i’m sure.
When designing books for example, Lorem Ipsum is invaluable for creating typographic relationships and grid design (see my upcoming article for DIF) where copy does not exist, or is not finalised yet. It’s cost effective to spend time developing the grid with dummy copy before you have final text rather than sitting around waiting for the manuscript. Typographic designers have used Lorem Ipsum for generations, with the lack of final copy, for developing form and a balance between typographic elements but more importantly for a quick representation of the final product for the client to buy into. Now for web design and specifically for applications, that’s a different story.
Hi Mark,
Lorem Ipsum does have it’s uses in initial conceptual work. However, I find that you can’t just directly copy and paste this text and use it as you’ll find extremely long words and comma’s a plenty. (Which in all intense purposes doesn’t look like realistic copy).
When I use Lorem Ipsum I find myself doing a find and replace in Quark and deleting all the comma’s. I also find that the line lengths look strange so feel forced to split words eg ‘consectetuer’.
Maybe I sound a bit anally rententive but it does make a difference?
Perhaps someone could develop another version of Lorem Ipsium which looked actual copy?
The problem with Lorem Ipsum is when it’s used in a context in which the client is confused as to why it’s there. If the client understands it’s there as a place holder until they finalise copy then it’s great as a tool for making them focus on the design rather than proof read the copy.
It does have it’s place in conceptual work, but you’re right — it can look odd.
It should be every designers standard policy not to work with any client who doesn’t undertstand Lorem Ispum as place holder text? unless thy have lots of money :)
I’ve had exactly that happen.
I once presented a series of designs to a legal firm who kept hold of the boards to allow the partners to have a look over them in their own time.
I got a snotty letter back from one of the partners who had spent the evening translating the lorem ipsum and wanted to point out that I’d used some gramatically incorrect latin and that if I were going to use latin I should at least make it accurate.
Painful…
I agree mark. I have been to the basecamp seminar so I know a little bit about the context their coming from. 1) They don’t do client work anymore, and 2) All they do (mostly) is work on their own application products.
I think he is referring to when you have a prototype application, which is relatively low in large amounts of text, and text is all auxilary. For the REST of us who create a variety of design work in a variety of situations with variety of clients…we need the ipsum! :)
I am currently working on a project where we created an entire HTML prototype of the site in mostly Lorem Ipsum before any design was done. The client wanted to use the prototype to hash out the messaging of each page (slogans, themes, ect) and have the copywriter writer fill-in copy. It was fantastic because it made sure the final text was concise, and kept to a minimum. (copywriters tended to want to writea lot…go figure :) )
I have no problem keeping my lipsum generator around, but I do get their point when it comes to using real data in forms and web applications.
Cheers.
I particularly am bored with Lorem Ipsum and just use an alternate dummy text generator. And it’s fun.
Phil — The mind boggles, it really does.
Ryan — I see what you mean and if 37signals did intend that with that post, they really should have made it clearer. I can totally understand them not wanting to use Lorem Ipsum in an application prototype.
Lea — That’s superb! Right, no more LoremIpsumfor me :-)
The alternative generator is clever, but remember that Lorem Ipsum is designed to simulate real copy, with varying word lengths and combinations. I would hate to compose body with this as a dummy:
<quote>Thunder, thunder, thundercats, Ho! Thundercats are on the move, Thundercats are loose. Feel the magic, hear the roar, Thundercats are loose. Thunder, thunder, thunder, Thundercats! Thunder, thunder, thunder, Thundercats! Thunder, thunder, thunder, Thundercats! Thunder, thunder, thunder, Thundercats! Thundercats!</quote>
blast, those aren’t the real tags…forgive, for I design print.